Human RightsReligion

Why I left ‘Islam’ and chose not to return

This is a guest post by Soran Tarkhani. He is of Kurdish origin from Iraqi Kurdistan. In addition to working as an assistant lecturer at Salahaddin University in Erbil and is currently pursuing his PhD in political science.

On reading Sidra Mahmood’s response to the VICE News documentary ‘Rescuing Ex-Muslims: Leaving Islam’, I experienced extreme disappointment. Not on account of her response being similar to all those death threats we ex-Muslims often receive for being merely who we are, but more specifically because I realised that even this person who was supposedly once an ex-Muslim herself, still doesn’t want to admit the simple fact that Islam itself is the main reason for leaving it in the first place. Simplifying ex-Muslims issues as though they were just a social issue, clearly demonstrates why Muslims are not yet ready to address this important issue.

To be honest, most ex-Muslims don’t leave Islam because they are not permitted to wear jeans or to watch fireworks. Many Muslims do wear jeans and watch fireworks in their own countries, although they would still harm you if they found out that you had left Islam. Those who leave Islam do so because they value the truth. Leaving Islam is carried out as a result of a long journey to seek the truth concerning the faith. It is a complete misunderstanding to equate disbelief with an attempt to escape a bad relationship with Mohammed, whilst hoping to fall in love again with another better person. This is a complete misunderstanding.

The title of Sidra Mahmood’s article infers that the problem experienced by ex-Muslims is not merely an Islamic problem. She introduces herself as a previous ex-Muslim, who has since returned to Islam, after understanding it’s true essence. In other words, she seems to be making the claim that ex-Muslims are those who don’t understand Islam, buttressed by her personal experience. However, she doesn’t offer any compelling arguments that apostasy is merely a social issue as a result of misunderstanding of Islam.

First and foremost apostasy, the renunciation of a previously held religious faith, is not a new phenomenon in the Islamic world, often attributed to the new age of the internet. Some of the first historical records of Islam, recovered after the death of Mohammad, give an account of war waged upon apostates. Abu Bakr, the first caliph and successor of Mohammad, engaged in a war known as ‘The Reddeh Wars -Wars of Apostasy’ (632- 633 AD). The apostates of the time were told to re-join Islam or face the sword resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands that no longer wished to submit. Unsurprisingly perhaps, the traditional Islamic methods of dealing with apostasy have not changed in the past 14 centuries. According to the Law Library of Congress on apostasy (2014), the vast majority of Muslim countries, (including Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Brunei, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen), still carry out legal sanctions for apostasy. Even in a country like Malaysia, which has a moderate Muslim majority in their population, 62% still actively support the death penalty for apostasy (2013 Pew Research Center). Furthermore, a vast majority of Muslims favor Sharia Law over civil contemporary laws, even including those Muslims born in Western countries (2014 Pew Research Center).

To clarify the Islamic stance on apostasy, and how it’s directly related to the doctrine itself, I’m provide here some of the main related Quranic verses and Hadiths :


Quran (4:89) – They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.

Quran (9:11-12) – But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief – Lo! they have no binding oaths – in order that they may desist.

Hadith and Sira

Bukhari (52:260) – …The Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’

Bukhari (83:37) – Allah’s Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate.

Bukhari (84:57) – [In the words of] Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’

Bukhari (84:64-65) – Allah’s Apostle: ‘During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.’

Abu Dawud (4346) – Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?

While there are other religions that similar harsh measures for those that dare to dissent, those edicts have fallen to the way side. Only in the Muslim world do we still see widespread enforcement and violent retribution for those of us following our conscience. Both major branches of Islam, (Shia and Sunni) at the current moment, support Islamic Sharia Law which dictates that apostates must be sentenced to death.

A fatwa, in the Islamic faith, is the name given to a legal interpretation of Islamic law issues by a learned person, or ‘judge’. Al-Azhar describes apostasy as one of the most heinous of crimes and impels Muslims to kill an apostate immediately if he/she refuses to return to the Islam faith (Dr. Andrew Bostom, 2011). The majority of prominent scholars working in both branches of Islam still postulate that Islamic ‘Sharia’ is the most appropriate way to deal with an issue of apostasy.

Sidra Mahmood, along with others, cites the first part of the verse (2:256) from the Quran as obvious proof that Islam does not prohibit apostasy. She nevertheless disregards the part which clearly defines apostates and non-Muslims as wrong and who mislead people who distrust Allah’s sincere and trustworthy words. I had deeply hoped that apostates held some place within Muslims’ hearts and in Islam. Unfortunately unlike Sidra’s Islam most Muslims do not regard their religion as an open cafeteria from which one can pick and choose elements to satiate ones desires…

Ex-Muslims, born and migrating to Western societies still experience the same problems, are subject to the same threats and social rejection as their counterparts living in Muslim majority societies. The rights of ex-Muslims cannot be achieved merely by dismissive expressions of empathy. The first step to solving a problem is recognizing that there is one…

I titled this article ‘Why I left Islam, and chose not to return’, because I value the truth and yet am afraid of reprisal. However, I can’t simply deceive myself that the earth is flat, that the moon was split in half by a magical figure or by 7th century tribesmen riding on the back of winged horses, from Mecca to space in the blink of an eye. After reading through the Sira ‘Biography’ of Mohammad,’ I would be lying if I suggested I could ever consider him a role model. After studying Islamic history in some detail, I can’t agree that the founder of Islam was a ‘Mercy for Mankind’. I simply can’t close my eyes to what the Quran and Hadiths actually claim. I fully appreciate how hard it is to be an apostate, but I refuse to dismiss my conscience and pretend to subscribe to something I wholeheartedly disagree with.

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  • Great post. Best wishes to Soran Tarkhani. I know very little about Islam but enough to know that Islam is in need of a major reformation, just like Christianity underwent, in my opinion.

    • Ken Starcok

      Islam-lite? ..would it still have that downhomo flavour?
      Y’all know white southerners in the US wernt fond of being told jesus’ approval of slavery just wasn’t cool anymore.

  • Junaid

    I don’t get ex-muslims sometimes, they, along with far right groups and Islamists all agree that Islam is a religion that is not peaceful so how on earth do they expect to work with moderate muslims when so many people are against them and their religion? Then ex-muslims change their minds and say “No we are not against muslims just Islam! But muslims have this mindset….” Well which is it???? And in regards to this quote, don’t other religious leaders from other religions make similar statements on how their religion is the only way, I mean Jesus makes a quote on how if Christians worship other gods besides him then they deserve to be killed why doesn’t anyone get pissed off about that? These guys always go back to Muhammad or they investigate Islam.

    • Heina Dadabhoy

      What is this quote by Jesus? Citation, please. Also, please cite examples of that quote being enforced.

      • Junaid

        Here is the prince of peace (Jesus) stating in Deuteronomy 13:6-9 Old Testament: “If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.”

        Here is another: Deuteronomy 17:3-5 “And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.”

        But no that is perfectly awesome and we think Christianity and other religions have always been peaceful and Islam has always instigated terror. Sick of all you hypocrites!

        • Heina Dadabhoy

          Deuteronomy is in the Old Testament, which contains exactly none of Jesus’s words. Jesus’s words are found in the Old Testament.

          I am not a Christian, by the way. I’m an ex-Muslim atheist. I understand that the Bible has hatred in it just as Islam does. However, Christians no longer kill people for leaving Christianity, and it’s silly to pretend both religions today are equal in their treatment of apostates.

        • Patrick Callahan

          Did Jesus-the-man ever say it with his mouthwords or write it with his meathands, though?

        • Petr Skokan

          I am an atheist, but what I know of modern christianity is based primarily on new testament = testimony of Jesus and his followers. There is nothing what encourage anybody to kill anyone not only for apostacy, but for anything. Even ten commandments are containing “You will not kill”. So I think you are just trying to fit wrong texts together. Old testament is predecessor of christianity. The main difference I see between islam/christianity is that reformation movements or counter church movements in any religion are simply going to the roots = are trying to get inspired by the founder of the church. So it is quite obvious that if you take as a model of reformation life of Jesus and you do the same and take as role model Mohamad = you will end up with different results as their lives did differ significantly.

        • minimemo

          The difference is quite simple…You are quoting from the Old Testament but Christians are taught to live as in the New Testament…Christianity re-booted and updated..Islam has not…but either way…ALL religious books were written by men, some through boredom, some through contracts, some through force and some because they chewed too much quat. But one thing is for sure…ANY religion that teachers you cannot leave it for fear of death, any religion that teaches men are superior to women, any religion that teaches your gods dick is bigger than another’s.. Has no place in the 21st century and certainly not in schools! Ban religion…lets find something more tangible to be fighting over instead of sky fairies and things someone might have said 1400-3000 years ago!! FFS have we not evolved past the stupidity of men being controlled by other men with the biggest man made stick ever invented! Banish religion to be taught as the ‘stupid part of history’!

    • Canadian Apistevist

      The interpretation of Islam formed via a literal reading of the Qur’an and Hadiths is not peaceful. Liberal Muslims are free from the shackles of the literalistic approach and they are willing to freely interpret the Qur’an and Hadiths. Including rejecting passages they individually find immoral and in their opinion ungodly. They may also choose to interpret some passages to be metaphoric rather than literal as well. How they go about choosing to interpret their scriptures is their business; my only concern is that the outcome of their interpretation is a peaceful ideology.

      “don’t other religious leaders from other religions make similar statements on how their religion is the only way, I mean Jesus makes a quote on how if Christians worship other gods besides him then they deserve to be killed why doesn’t anyone get pissed off about that?”

      Even if Jesus said that (Jesus wasn’t alive when Deuteronomy was written), message me when Christians TODAY IN MY LIFETIME kill kafirs. Until then what’s the point of bringing this up?

      Also I’m not a Christian. I think that line from Deuteronomy is trash amongst a dump.

    • Calvin Al

      Junaid, well you can’t regard all ex-muslims alike. Some ex-muslims strictly believe Islam is not peaceful. some just claim Islam is peaceful so they lure in Muslims for mindful thinking or to just avoid their raging wrath. And some ex-muslims lived their young lives as Muslims among peaceful communities with kind and loving people, which is the good side of Islam and so call Islam peaceful. So my point is, every ex-Muslim different than the other.

  • Usama mithani

    Assalam alikum brothers and sisters…
    sorry in advance for my poor english

    There are some basics of Islam:

    1 there is no God accept Allah

    2 Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last and final messenger of Allah.

    3 Quran is the last book of God which is given to Muhammad (Peace be upon him)

    4 God send us in this world for test

    5 There will be a judgement day

    and some more

    If these basics are true and if they are proven right then Islam indeed is a right path.

    if one of these basics are proven false then Islam is a not right a path..

    i will be very happy to prove these basics right

    if some want me to talk on this topic i will be very gr8ful thankyou

    • Canadian Apistevist

      Joseph Smith is the last and final messenger of Allah, not Muhammad.

      • stansukhwant singh

        All hail joseph smith 🙂

      • Suya Yuvika

        hahaha… you forgot the recent Russian Prophet. :p

    • OK

      Why sadist allah punish some one till eternity? for finite crimes. Everyone is responsible for their actions does not deserve eternal damnation.
      Why Allah who cannot be seen who sometimes come and talk to angels , prophets etc? isn’t this a contradicton? I mean some entity who is beyond human senses and imagination has presence in some places and talking to some one doesn’t make any sense to me.
      Why Quran says in the heaven referring Allah in some verses? so allah is not omnipresent?
      How do you say mohammed saw Gabriel and not allah in sura an-najm? Why allah asked angels to prostrate before adam if he hates shirk so much?
      How is the body you receive in judgement day stays for ever? something has origin should end right?
      or if there is no death to rooh(soul) then it must not have origin too.
      Why allah suddenly created universe and then on judgement day decided to keep heaven and hell only for ever and destroy earth?
      regarding the scientific miracles you says in quran, this need lot of explanation from apologists who s familiar with modern science. Why Allah is not clear in his book like Newton or some other scientists? Quran is supposed to be crystal clear word of Allah isn’t it so?

      • stansukhwant singh

        never argue with a muslim, he does not have the intellectual capability to logically discern what you say. He is after all prohibited from thinking critically. Just point him to any site that can rubbish his stupid theories. here is 1 fantastic link.

    • you are brainwashed and you are wasting your life on something that isnt real i hope one day you realize this and start living your life the way you want to not the way some imaginary sky fairy wants you to live

  • Usama mithani


    Most the Atheists we realise, have become Atheists
    because they believe in science and technology. These people think that
    science has advanced so much that we don’t require any scripture and we
    don’t require any religion etc.
    The first question we ask to the Atheist is ‘suppose there is an
    a machinery which nobody in the world has ever seen before.If it’s
    brought in front of you, if it’s brought in front of the Atheist, and if
    we ask the question to him that “who will be the first person who will
    be able to tell you the mechanisms of this machinery or this object?”

    reply the Atheist will give you is “the first person who will tell you
    the mechanism is the manufacturer”. Some may say “the creator”, some may
    say “the inventor”, some may say “the producer”

    Then we ask him the next question – “how did our universe come into
    existence?” The Atheist will tell us that initially there was a primary
    nebula, then there was a big bang, there was a secondary separation
    which gave rise to galaxies, the sun, the moon and the earth on which we
    live This is called as a big bang.

    did you come to know about this creation of the universe? He will tell
    you ‘about 30-40 years back when scientists has discovered this’.

    ask him the question ‘but what you’re talking about (the big bang) is
    already mentioned in the Qur’an Chapter 21 Verse 30 which says “do not
    the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were adjoined
    together and we clove them ascunder” what you’re talking about the (the
    big bang) is already mentioned in the Qur’an 1400 years ago, who could
    have mentioned that?’

    So the Atheist will say ‘maybe it’s a fluke’. No problem,

    next question

    he light of the moon, is it its own light or reflected light? So the
    Atheist will tell us ‘previously we thought that the moon has its own
    light, but recently we have come to know in science (100-200 years back)
    that the light of the moon is not its own light but reflected light.
    The Qur’an mentions 1400 years ago in Chapter 25 Verse 61 “blessed is he
    who has placed the constellations in the sky and placed therein a lamp,
    a sun having its own light and the moon having reflected or borrowed
    light”. The Arabic word used for moonlight in the Qur’an is “muneer” or
    “noor” meaning reflected light or borrowed light. Who could have
    mentioned this 1400 years ago?

    The Atheist may say “your Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) maybe he was an intelligent man”. no problem

    next question

    The world that we live on, what’s the shape of this earth on which we
    live? The Atheist will tell you ‘it is spherical’. When did we come to
    know this? So he will tell us “it was 1597 when Sir Francis Drake, he
    sailed around the earth, he proved that the earth was spherical”. But
    the Quran tells us 1400 years ago, in Chapter 79 verse 30 – “and
    thereafter we(Allah) have made the earth egg shaped”. The Arabic word
    “Dahahaa”, one of its meanings is ‘the earth as an expanse” whilst the
    other Arabic word from which it derives refers to an egg of an ostridge.
    We know the world is completely round like a ball, but, it is
    geospherical in shape – and if you analyse the shape of an ostridge egg,
    that too is geospherical in shape. Who could have mentioned 1400 years
    ago that the shape of the earth is geospherical?

    Again, the Atheist may say “your Prophet, maybe he was super intelligent”. no problem

    next question

    About 20 years ago according to science the sun was stationery. It revolved. But it did not rotate about its own axis.
    But the Quran says in Chapter 21 Verse 33 – “It is Allah who has created
    the night and the day, the sun and the moon, each one travelling in
    orbit with its own motion

    So the Quran says that besides the sun revolving, it even rotates about
    its own axis. Who could have mentioned this in the Quran 1400 years ago?
    And the Atheist will be silent

    and i can go on and on and on

    Today, science tells us that the universe is expanding, which is mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago in Chapter 51 Verse 47

    The Quran speaks about the water cycle, which we learnt in school. It
    was Bernard Palissy in 1580 who first described the water cycle – How
    the water evaporated from the ocean, forms into clouds, moves into the
    interior and falls down as rain. This water cycle is spoken about in
    great detail in the Quran in several verses.
    In Chapter 39 Verse 21,
    Chapter 30 Verse 24,
    Chapter 15 Verse 22,
    Chapter 23 Verse 18,
    Chapter 24 Verse 43,
    Chapter 30 Verse 48,
    Chapter 7 Verse 17,
    Chapter 25 Verse 48-49,
    Chapter 35 Verse 9,
    Chapter 36 Verse 34,
    Chapter 67 Verse 30,
    Chapter 86 Verse 11

    Hence proved Allah is a Creator of this universe, Quran is a word of Allah, and prophet pbah is a true messenger and islam is a right path and each and everything in this book is truth, wethr its about judgement day or about sharia law

    • stansukhwant singh

      wah ha ha ha ha ha ha. the b.s of islamic science debunked.

    • Deepu R. Nair

      First of all, I can say with certainty that you have been watching an awful lot of Zakir Naik videos. Because these are the typical arguments of that moron. You seem to be aware of the fact that if you present these lame arguments before an atheist, the atheist will crush them. That’s why you have given the atheist’s answers yourself (“say this, and the atheist will be silent.” ROFL :D).

      One of the ways in which Muslims have been making fool of themselves is by laboring under the delusion that scientific facts which were discovered recently by scientists are only present in the Quran, among all religious texts. Let me tell you that they are present in almost all religious texts. Here’s something to shock you:

      The existence of rather advanced concepts like the sphericity of Earth and the cause of seasons is quite clear in Vedic literature. For example, the Aitareya Brahmana (3.44) declares:

      “The Sun does never set nor rise. When people think the Sun is setting it is not so. For after having arrived at the end of the day it makes itself produce two opposite effects, making night to what is below and day to what is on the other sideHaving reached the end of the night, it makes itself produce two opposite effects, making day to what is below and night to what is on the other side. In fact, the Sun never sets. ”

      “Shape of Earth is like an Oblate Spheroid.” (Rig VedaXXX. IV.V)

      ‘”Earth is flattened at the poles’” (Markandeya Purana 54.12)

      “He made this Earth fixed by different devices like hills and mountains in shape of pegs but it still rotates . Sun never sets; all parts of earth are not in Darkness.” [RIG VEDA]

      “Earth rotates in two ways by the Will of Brahama, first it rotates on its axis secondly it revolves around sun. Days and Nights are distinguished when moves on its axis. Season change when it revolves around Sun”. (Vishnu Puran)

      “Blue Sky is Nothing but scattered sunlight.” (Markandeya Purana 78.8)

      “After the formation of the earth planet, Brahama created atmosphere in group of seven , from that formation oceans began to exist, and the first form of life appeared on the earth planet. Atmosphere was created as protective skin of earth.” (Shrimad Bhagwatam)
      And it’s common knowledge that the Hindu scriptures are the oldest religious texts in the world, written thousands of years before the Quran. So, as per your “There is science in my holy book, therefore it’s from God” logic, the Hindu scriptures must be the true word of God. And since the Hindu scriptures were written first, Quran actually stole from them! 😀

      • Doodle

        sheriyanu Deepu…Humbly adding to what you said:- God is beyond human understanding , senses and imagination. God is absolute truth. Agnostics believe a God like this. Hindu scriptures also tell God as beyond senses and imagination though the time tested worship of God with forms (as God in true nature is beyond human capabilities to be worshipped) is proven to be effective. However Islamic god will be present sporadically here and there and talk to so called prophets, angels etc thus making him not beyond senses (ear). Allah is not beyond senses and imagination. Also, God is an ocean of compassion, not a sadist who will burn humans eternally in hell for the finite crimes they do. Islamic god is also not beyond space and time as quran says he is “in the heaven” – Quran 67:16 to 67:18

        Now a days few Muslim apologists are translating these verses as “over the heaven” or “above the heaven”. This creates another problem that Quran is not a clear unambiguous message of god.
        Similarly in Gita lord clearly says soul has no birth and death. Sankara says this soul is identical to brahmam. However in islam, soul is created when some one is born, stays in qabr till day of qayamat and is resurrected . Then it stays in heaven and hell forever.

        • Deepu R. Nair

          I am a deist.I am not here to argue that ‘Hindu/Christian/Muslim god is the true god’. I’m simply saying that if there are scientific facts in a religious scripture, it is not at all a proof that it’s the true word of God; because scientific facts are present in Hindu, christian and Islamic scriptures. By that logic, all of them must be the true word of God, which obviously is not possible, as these scriptures contradict each other in numerous places. And yes, I agree that a God who considers non-worship/worship of deities other than him(shirk) a worse sin than murder/rape/theft and burns humans in hell is not worth worshiping.

          • Doodle

            deists does not believe in a God who interfere in our lives. Is that true? But God does interfere in human life. Law of karma is a reality. varna and ashrama dharma must be followed. Only karma (rituals) bring discipline. Hence scriptures say karma leads to njana (knowledge) . Njana leads to identification of true self(brahmam counceousness) and salvation. Only sinless attains salvation. From a God worship standpoint, we have to worship saguna God Durga,Shiva and Vishnu

          • MMaximuSS1975

            There are absolutely ZERO scientific miracles in any holy book. If there is something remotely coincidental, it was by dumb luck. Please spare me the apologist nonsense.

            It is quite amusing when believers in ignorant nonsense desperately try to equate their evidence free mythology to the only system of knowledge that has ever produced results. Science.

            There has never, ever been one time that a supernatural explanation has ever trumped a scientific or philisophical explanation. Not once, and that record is not going to change. Deal with it.

          • Deepu R. Nair

            I am not a believer or an apologist of any religion. I was simply rebutting Mr Usama’s claim that if there are scientific facts in a holy book, it makes the book the word of God. I don’t believe that ANY HOLY BOOK was written by God. All of them are man-made.

      • Haroon Rooha

        There is no such thing as Hinduism. There is Dharma,Knowldge not belief or faith based.Gyaan,Guru,Shishya ,shikshaa ,satsang.There is no worship ,praying ,dogmas or rituals in Dharma.It is the priciple of acquired ,adopted,evolving,self rightiousness,are the pillars.Dharma has no begining no end like Time ,space.Soul is the core energy present is each cell of living or atoms of non living systems.Energy cannot be created or destroyed by any means,it transforms ,transitions and re -emerges in different physical ways. Math,Physics chemistry biology economics are alaphabets of Dharmas.The equation of Calculus is the foundation of Dharma ,Intgrals and derivative.Nothing can be one, including Lord or Allah.. There has to be multiplplex Dharma is not religion.Religions are based on blind beliefs or foolish faiths.Dharma are to be challeged and re confirmed by acquiring new knowledge,resulting in self improvent,in a given time-space unit.

        • disgusted

          are you haroon yahya’s second cousin? or one and half cousin?

    • MMaximuSS1975

      Bullshit there are zero scientific miracles on the Qur’an.

    • minimemo

      Early evidence of such practices appears as markings on bones and cave walls, which show that lunar cycles were being noted as early as 25,000 years ago; the first step towards recording the Moon’s influence upon tides and rivers, and towards organizing a communal calendar.[5] With the Neolithic agricultural revolution new needs were also met by increasing knowledge of constellations, whose appearances in the night-time sky change with the seasons, allowing the rising of particular star-groups to herald annual floods or seasonal activities.[6] By the 3rd millennium BC, widespread civilisations had developed sophisticated awareness of celestial cycles, and are believed to have consciously oriented their temples to create alignment with the heliacal risings of the stars.[7]

    • minimemo

      Your alleged ‘prophet’ stated something in his book that was already known 25 THOUSAND years ago….and ps. An athiest will NEVER respond ‘the prophet pbuh’..that’s your shit….I ain’t buying it!

    • minimemo

      You really need to read more than the koran…almost EVERYTHING you mention where your koran.. claims first…is false…it really is easy to prove the lies… you say the koran and some bloke mohammed.. discovered the moon did not have it’s own light 1400 years ago……..well he was only about a thousand years TOO LATE . Anaxagoras, a famous Greek: philosopher…claimed this well documented knowledge about 500 years BC. How much more proof do you need that your book is fake, your book has plagerised other peoples knowledge…not a god, not a sky fairy….a war mongering paedophile, who wanted to control and murder his enemies…and you all fell for it! Cut yourself loose from the lies…do what muslims are told NOT to do..question your religion! Question your imams on the lies and discrepancies and false claims and hate and then come back and we can discuss reality!

    • disgusted

      you wrote the Qur’an?

  • Atheism is honest. It is the beginning of wisdom.

    • Alice

      The truth is utterly the opposite. The beginning of wisdom is when you start trying to understand the reason behind everything in this religion. Understanding God is beyond wisdom.
      Of course, you won’t be able to find your answers out of nowhere. It requires time and knowledge.
      I won’t give anymore details, because no matter what I say it won’t be enough to convince you. You’re the only one who can save yourself. Save yourself before it’s too late.

  • Anta

    Hi all,
    Atheists claim they believe in scientific facts only and encouraging people to be atheists and I believed that, but most of their posts were not as I noticed in the social medias:
    1. They interpretate the scientific facts in wrong way against religions
    2. They used theories as proofs
    3. They never describe the atheists community they are looking for, how it should be!!
    4. They never talk about the ethics and human morality in the proposed atheist community
    5. They claim that religions do not accepting atheists and they are doing the same
    6. Most of them are not educated well and they posts the sarcastic comments against religions.
    7. Most of them using bad words (dirty works) in their comments
    8. They don’t respect any one / anything
    Do you agree that it is disgusting and needs to be revisited

    • Marko Karbevski

      I’ll start and end with a response to 2):
      Theory does not mean what you think it means.

    • Emma

      Trying to discredit atheism, although you are entirely within your rights to do so, does not strengthen the argument for Islam.

      • Anta

        My argument was about Atheism not about Islam

        I guess that you decided to move from religion to Atheism because of what you found is better. I believe in science therefore I followed the Atheists sites and blogs and those (above) were my observations and comments

    • minimemo

      Just about anything you have said is quite frankly offensive….where to start with tearing apart your self belief in being superior because you worship some sky fairy that NO-ONE, not even science has ever proved exists…who teaches you religion? Who brings you up in religion? Show me a scientific ‘fact’ that is wrong against religion? Theories be definition are not proof…atheists don’t need a ‘community’ we’re not that self absorbed to rely on making ‘gangs’, nor do we need to discuss ethics and morality, they kind of both evolve naturally without interference from religious bigots or threats or beatings…see no-one ever told an atheist they should kill their neighbour for not agreeing with them! Religion does not accept fact Islam wants to kill us…I am not aware of any other religion in the 21st century who wants to kill me for not agreeing with them. I as an atheist wish you no harm…as long as you leave me alone and do not try and force your religion on me! As for ‘uneducated’ wow, just wow! You think being brought up to kneel before a sky fairy gives you some superior intellect? You dear are not only deluded, but probably beyond help…whose definition are words ‘dirty’? I find the word kaffir offensive, I find the word Islamaphobia offensive, I find many words offensive..No. 8 your semi right, I don’t respect you….but other than that what a massive brush you use to tar me and others like me…We respect more than you are capable of..does Islam teach you to respect me, being an unbeliever?? No I don’t agree any of what you have said…your mind is the one that needs revisited because it’s hard to imagine one person with so much wrong in their head! Go get help…with your biaised ignorant lack of understanding to anyone and anything that isn’t …you…!

      • Anta

        Believers of Muslims are humble as per Islam regulation

        Scientific Fact “invisibility doesn’t proof not exist” such as Magnetic Field not visible but exist, if you don’t see Allah (the God) doesn’t mean he is not exist

        Muslims accept to live with non Muslims as per Islam regulation, but Atheist seems don’t according to your offensive and harsh statement to me in your comments

        There were famous scientific Muslims who were Atheist and lived peacefully in Islamic states such as Ibn Sina (Avicenna) and Ibn Rushd (Averroes) and so many others

        By the way the word “Kaffir” in Islam mean disbeliever / One without religion / Atheist, it is not offensive word

        Theories has both ways either True or False, require proof to be True

        Finally, let us not talk about Islam, I want you or any Atheist to tell me why i should move to Atheism and what kind of relationship and events between people as Atheist think it should be such as marriage, death, morality, inheritage .. etc.

        • minimemo

          Magnetic fields are able to be seen using scientific equipment …to say a ‘muslim athiest’ shows how unbalanced you are…the relationship between people such as marriage death morality etc is based on MAN made law, common sense and compassion and what is deemed ‘socially acceptable’ not what some bearded bully in a mosque tells you what to do, how to do it and how to be punished if you dont follow his instructions! I am free to speak wtih whoever I wish to, go out when I want, marry who I want, leave my property to whoever I wish, as for death and morality….death comes to all of us…no one is immortal and the main MAIN difference….is I believe we need to do our BEST in this life on this planet at this time because there is NOTHING waiting for you….and the madness of religion, especially Islam….kill now, rape now, destroy now…you will be rewarded in the next life! Live in poverty now, accept giving the man in the mosque money now so he can live a privileged and comfortable life while you go without told by him you are oppressed now…but all will be better in the next life! It really takes a special kind of special to believe that and the sooner we stop teaching our children to accept being brainwashed by these evil men acting on behalf, so they tell you of a made up sky fairy!

          • Anta

            Let me brief my comments as follows:
            1. We need to do our BEST in this life including good deeds and morality but excluding selfish, which are requested and maintained by religion.
            2. because there is reward after death for what you did of good deeds.
            clue: there is no scientific proof that no life after death. hence, acoording to the probability theory there is fifty fifty percent (at least) a life after death.
            3. you are misleaded about islam, in contrary you have to protect neighbours, save lives of mankind, doing lot of good deeds, ignore the selfish, encouraging thinking and reading, no preference for race or skin colour except with piety, all of that in the holy quran.
            4. There is no scholars to be blindly followed.

        • disgusted

          kindly just stay wherever you are. atheism is already crowded. so. please.

          • Anta

            “DISQUS” is for people who like to share their opinion, but failure to do it is not good

        • Marty

          Anta, if one does not see God, then that proves only that one does not see a God, and that is all that it proves, nothing else. The lack of evidence for something’s existence cannot be cited as proof that the thing DOES exist.

          As I mentioned briefly in my previous reply to you, the burden of proof rests with the one who makes the assertion, hence the presumption of innocence in criminal trials. In all cases, it is the plaintiff who must prove their assertion, their case against the defendant.

          To ask for someone to prove that God doesn’t exist is, at best, asking someone to prove a negative; it is impossible to prove a negative, and it is irrational to attempt it.

          More on this at a later time . . .

        • Yadav

          “Scientific Fact “invisibility doesn’t proof not exist” such as Magnetic
          Field not visible but exist, if you don’t see Allah (the God) doesn’t
          mean he is not exist”

          You can still prove magnetic field exists, because without that we would not exist on this earth. While allah’s existence can’t be proved because if he/she existed, there would not be so much violence in muslim countries, so many folks would not have been blown up in mosques, palestinians have been suffering for decades, where is allah to protect them? there is no much poverty and injustice in many muslim countries, where is allah to feed them and provide justice? It is because there is no god or allah, it is just figment of imagination of intellectually inferior and morally weak individuals.

    • scientific theory and normal theory are two completely different things

    • disgusted

      are you an ant and you can type?

    • Automaticallybornfahim

      Your are Saying the Right thing. For Atheists they say LGBT is ok. and we can say yes That’s ok, It is but the point is Why I never saw a male gorilla F**king another male gorilla.

      The Point is Many People Don’t Think about Allah or GOD or why he gave the idea of hell and heaven ( he is treating you like a Kid ), he gave the idea of hell just to keep you away from bad. What is going to happen you don’t know. Never Abandon Him Or One Day you will Sleep But never see the light of next day. (Damn He is so close)

      hahaha You can Say so I Wrote this automatically because everything is being done automatically
      this world

    • Marty

      I would be interested in knowing the explanations for each of your seven assertions. What most folks don’t fully understand is that the burden of proof rests squarely upon those who make an assertion, such as “there are green men on the far side of the moon,” or, more simply, “God exists.”
      Then these persons either say nothing in defense of their assertion, or they challenge their listeners to “Prove it isn’t so.”

      Let me see if I can help out a bit . . . Atheism is not a philosophy of life, not even a way of living. It is a single answer to a single question which has been debated by learned men for centuries—nay, for millennia. Not being a philosophy, it cannot say what kind of ethics one should follow, nor what type of community one should live in.

      To demonstrate the validity of my assertion, above, I need only to point out that atheism is a requirement to pratice the philosophy of dialectical materialism—which has, as its social, political, and economic issues the poliico systems communism, supported by the dictatorship of the proletariat. Contrast this with the philosophy of Objectivism, also atheistic, but upholding individual rights and laissez-faire capitalism. One has the ethical theory of altruism; the other, of individualism—diametrical opposites, yet both atheistic.

      Some of your bullet points—namely, 3,4,5, and 6 are completely irrelevant to a discussion of atheism vs. theism. More specifically, 7 seems like you might be willing to curtail freedom of speech as a means of stopping “bad” language; 4 is curious because all of my atheist friends—and I mean ALL—and myself have engaged in discussions of politics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology, but please note that these discussions have always been outside the realm of atheism because, as I have said, atheism is not a philosophy, whereas those four disciplines mentioned above comprise four of the five main branches of philosophy.

      In closing, and in a spirit of fostering a greater understanding, I would offer you an invitation you to carry on an honest conversation with me. I am not interested in calling names, nor in winning any argument for the mere sake of winning. My toughest arguments have always been with myself. Or, as a friend of mine once said, “a mind convinced againt its will is of the same opinion still.” Let me know your wishes in this respect.

  • Haroon Rooha

    Islam, is 14th century concepts of a beduin man named Muhammad.His views echo the views of jews as described in Tohra or Pentatuch or Old testament ( there is not an iota of newness in Islam,it is copy cat of Judaism)are out date, undemocratic ,in- humane and unscientific.Jews are no more monolithic jews.They have evolved.Christians are of numerous varieties non of them come close to what jesus taught.It is time for muslims to read and crtically understand quran not recite it.Time will force Islam to change ,and perish.Most mulims are muslimsin name only= MINO.ISIS are true ,muslims others are munnakkars.

    • Cikgu Dah Bengang

      get your facts right

      Muhammad was NOT a bedouin

  • MMaximuSS1975

    Well said. The Religion of Peace honor badge should be considered blasphemy. A complete lie about Islam.

  • Telh

    How anyone with a modicum of intelligence can remain a Muslim beggars belief.

  • Eleanor Garcia

    Islam is full of deception. Full of reasoning only a insane & evil person would accept. The Koran is a pile of garbage & encourages hatred & violence. Watch Europe be devoured by sickening hatred of good Muslims who serve Allah.

  • Arthur Cunningham

    At last somebody talking sense. Please remember to try and stay safe your people need you and people like you to direct them away from the extremists.

  • karamoore

    OK, now here’s the one they need to explain. In the book Reliance of the Traveler, it says a pregnancy can last four years.

    Apparently Mohammed’s mother gave birth to him four years after his father died (yeah, someone’s a little naive there if they believe that one)

    It must have been very hard for her (one would imagine) because she died not long after. Poor woman, pregnant for four long years.

  • douglas gray

    I am not an atheist, but I feel that Ahmad-Al-Shamri’s death sentence for atheism in Saudi Arabia is no different, morally and ethically, from Hitler putting people to death because they were Jews. The fact that the United Nations puts up with this shows that it is a morally and ethically weak organization. If I were U.S. President, I would expel all Saudi diplomats from our Country, and refuse to let them back in, unless and until this man is released and allowed to leave the Country.

  • Ibrahim Elnemr

    The truth about Islam has been covered by many misconceptions and stereotypes. If you’re not biased and want the truth, I suggest you see these links, for a more educated view about Islam.

    Why Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a messenger of God:

    Misconceptions about Islam:

    It’s time to face the facts. Good luck all, may Allah guide you always, and let’s always try to make these conversations filled with care and respect.

  • Syed Asif Ali

    Quran is the book , even if you don’t believe is from creator of the universe, tells you that all humans are children of Adam and Eve , and one community, with no superiority of one to other except in taqwa. According to the book God sent massenger after massenger to all communities to remind them of eternal life after death , some of the massenger were final verdict to humanity in case of rejection. Example Moses and Muhammad was the final of that chain, the killings were done as he was special convoy of God on this earth, Quran tells you the life story of messenger and above quotations are from that revelations, after that no one has a right to kill or establish any faith on earth. People are presented with massage of peace from Quran , you are Muslim if accept it. And not if don’t accept it . But I agree general Islamic scholars consider apostasy as a crime punishable by death , which is not sanctioned in Quran.

  • Telh

    Good for you. Islam should be seen for what it is by all Muslims. ‘Yusuf al-Qaradawi, head of the Muslim Brotherhood and one of the most respected leaders of the Sunni world, recently said on Egyptian television, “If they [Muslims] had gotten rid of the punishment [often death] for apostasy, Islam would not exist today.” ‘.
    Islam cannot stand on its own merits. It has to be propped up by threat, thugs and apostasy laws.